The Grasshopper, Tatsfield

I recently received an interesting communication from a reader which I thought to share here. 

He wrote:“I began researching my family history when I was a child, speaking to my Granddad – I was born in Redhill Hospital and brought up in Oxted. He always said that my ancestors ‘ran pubs’ and when I become a bit more serious about genealogy about 15 years ago this was borne out by my research. My Great Grandfather William George Church and his wife Annie Louisa (nee Westbrook) ran the Wheatsheaf Inn in Old Oxted at the end of the 19^th Century (1891 census), and my Great-Great-Grandfather Reuben Robert Church was the landlord of the Grasshopper Inn at Moorhouse, Tatsfield near Westerham from about 1885 until his death in 1904. I have found his will and his entire estate of £155 (worth over £17,000 in today’s money!) all went to Granville Charles Gresham Leveson Gower, who I believe owned the pub. I would like to know why the considerable estate did not go to Reuben’s descendants – was there a debt to be repaid or some other reason? I have not found the answer to this question yet. 

These ancestors were originally from Netteswell in Essex (now part of Harlow new town) where my Great-Great-Great Grandfather Thomas Bray ran the Greyhound Inn (which I have visited as it still exists, sat rather incongruously on the old village green amongst the brutal architecture of Harlow). The earliest connection I have found in my family tree to running a pub is Reuben’s grandfather (and my 4^th Great-Grandfather) Daniel Coleman (1754 – 1819) who was recorded as a licenced victualler in his will, I presume in Netteswell (possibly of the Greyhound pub, although this isn’t specified in the will). 

I discovered that Reuben (he anglicised his name to Robert for some reason) and his wife Eliza (nee Bray) divorced in 1893 (which was quite a surprise as this was almost unknown at the time) and from the divorce petition that they lived in Penge, Norwood in between their time in Netteswell and moving to Tatsfield. I presume their relocation was related to the licenced victualler trade they were in, but have not yet found any evidence for this nor which pub they ran in Penge.”

If any historians out there can shed any light, your observations would be most welcome!

Query about The Old Ship, Tatsfield

I recently recvd an email from a reader enquiring about the Monteiths who ran the Old Ship in Tatsfield -

Hello:

Before we moved to Canada in 1960 we spent tons of time with our parents,grandparents and aunts and uncles at the old ship in Tatsfield. Their old friends Ian and Doss Monteith ran the pub at the time. We were kids and mostly roamed the countryside, played with frogspawn from the pond, rode ponies, and had a lovely time with our cousin Tricia, uncle Ian's daughter.

We have long lost touch as all of my English rellies are long gone. I am probably considered an OLD rellie myself by now.... relic!

Do you have any further information about the Monteiths, can you shed any light on the whereabouts of the family.

I am planning on coming to England in the future and would be interested in hunting down some threads of the past. I remember the Ship so clearly, and scrunching chips and peanuts and anything else we could get our sticky fingers on, for our midnight feasts. The lovely smell of the saloon is still a fragrant memory.

I came across you by Google. Hope you don't mind. Bit of a ramble, this!!

yours sincerely

Grizelda

Further information on the Bull, and White Bear, Chelsham

THE BULL, CHELSHAM GREEN

The pub is in a quiet part of the countryside with Chelsham Common opposite it - which is useful for exercising Tina, the St Bernard dog who was resident at the Bull. She was a TV star as she appeared in several advertisments on the commercial programme.


WHITE BEAR, CHELSHAM

Although it is so near suburbia, the White Bear is buried in the heart of the countryside at the end of the delightfully named "Featherbed Lane".

Once a row of cottages, this beautiful pub is long and rangy. It remains completely unspoilt with its stone-flagged floors and low ceilings in the three bars.

In the saloon stood one of the Parliament clocks in the country which is (in 1965. Ed.) still in working order. It dates from Pitt the Younger, who clapped a tax on clocks. Landlords of most hostelries promptly got rid of their clocks, which resulted in chaos as coaches never ran to time as nobody knew what hour it was. To counteract this, parliament had designed special clocks, which in those days were thought grotesque, and these were exempt from tax.

The Surrey & Burstow Hunt and the local Beagles meet at the inn once a year - the only thing that stopped them doing this has been fog (and now the recent Anti-hunting laws, Ed.)

(both extracted from "Surrey Pubs" by Richard Keeble. Batsford press. 1965. pps 24/25)

TATSFIELD, TITSEY & CHELSHAM PUBLIC HOUSES

TATSFIELD.

The Grasshopper, Westerham Road, Tatsfield. Situated about 2 miles from the Carpenters Arms, and about 1½ from Plumbers Arms and the General Wolfe, Westerham. The Inn was owned by Leveson Gower of Titsey Place, but tied to Bushells of Westerham. In 1892 the licensee was Robert Church and the inn was frequented by labouring classes.

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The Ship, Tatsfield Common. Situated 2 miles from the Fox & Hounds Inn, Cudham, and 3 ½ miles from the Bull Inn, Limpsfield. The original “Old Ship” stood on what is now the car park, the land being known as Budds. This was sold in 1802 and the inn occupied by Harman in 1807 (SRO 3/127-30).

The Ship was rebuilt on the present site in 1890 and there are Nalder & Collyer iron boundary plates set in the middle of the road. The 1892 PSR endorses that it was in the possession of nalders & Colliers and cites the licensee as a James Nye and that the inn was frequented by farmers and labouring classes.

A resident, Mr Wood, relating on 21st Feb 1970, recalls a change of tenancy there.
“Mr Tom Vincent who had been there over 40 years - a real character - retired, and I engaged a new man to take over. Mr Robert Monteith, a retired detective sergeant of Special Branch Police and who had been a personal bodyguard to HM King George V. I remember well that one of the references given to the licencing justices and was read out at Oxted court by the Master of the King’s household Sir Derek Kappel and requested that the king wished the license of the Old Ship to be granted to Monteith. In all my years in the trade I had never heard of this being done! I believe that his son Ian Monteith is still at the Ship. Hee took over from his father on return from the war after being taken prisoner in the desert in the Africa Canpaign. He escaped after ten days!”

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TITSEY.

The Pineapple, Titsey Park. Situated adjacent to the Church cottage. Sold beer to the Titsey Estate workers, but was closed down owing to usage on Sundays to the neglect of church attendance. It now serves as the Titsey Estate Co’s office.

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CHELSHAM

The Bull, Chelsham Green.

Situated about ½ mile from both Hare & Hounds, and the Harrow at Warlingham Corner.

This inn was a copyhold Harman house with ¾ acre orchard and garden. Anthony Harman was admitted in 1804, whilst in 1886, Ramsay Harman paid £157 to be enfranchised. It became Nalders & Collyers in 1887 (SRO 337/3/131-4)

In 1859 the licensee was James Gooding, and he was further described as shopkeeper.

In 1892 it was listed as being free for spirits but tied for beer to Nalder & Co of Croydon. It had stabling for 3 horses and was frequented by the labouring classes. The licensee at that time was Edward Henry Bacon.

A letter in the June 1965 edition of the Croydon Advertiser refers to the old “Bull” in Ledgers Road, Chelsham - it is now a private house.

Opposite is a photo of the Bull Inn circa 1900. Mr & Mrs Williams (white dress and plus fours) also Mr & Mrs Pewsley (proprietors). CrPL Acc. 942.2156.

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Hare & Hounds, Warlingham Corner.

Situated about ½ mile from the Bull, and about 3 miles from the Ship at Tatsfield.

In 1892 the inn was a free house owned by Mrs Paget of Guildford, the licensee being Harry Golden. The inn had stabling for 9 horses and was frequented by labouring classes.

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White Bear, Fairchilds (“Fickles Hole”).

Lies about 2 miles from the Bull, and about the same distance from the Hare & Hounds. Late 17th century. In 1892 was described as a beerhouse tied to Messrs Ludlam & Grant of Shirley. The licensee was Jesse Harbour. Often used by the labouring classes.

Opposite is a photo taken 13th April 1905 on a 5¼ x 3¼ plate, silver, contributed by Roffey & Clarke, High St., Croydon. Acc 546.204. The bear can be seen in the garden by the tree on the right. The tree has since been removed.

We learn of the acquisition in 1905 of the original bear, via auction, from The Bear pub at the Criterion, Piccadilly, starting point of the Bath coach, and of its subsequent disappearance in WW2 at the hands of revelling Canadian troops. There may well be a link through the West Nova Scotia Regiment, stationed at that time in Woldingham. Perhaps a veteran in Canada can recall where it was buried, for surely they didn't take it home! The present bear is a very solid and immovable concrete job.